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07 November 2016 @ 07:00 pm
Did Kylo Ren Try to Avoid Meeting Han Solo on Starkiller Base?  

"Han Solo..." whispers a visibly struggling Kylo Ren, as he grasps the pilot's chair in the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon, in a scene that was filmed and ultimately removed from the final version of Star Wars: The Force Awakens. What he was searching for could be anybody's guess, as the Corellian YT freighter had been abandoned of personnel and there was no trace of anything useful onboard, or so it would have seemed.

It was among several instances in which Ren was portrayed as distracted in mid-action or thought to utter his father's name, as though sensing him by means that extended beyond the ordinary. It was apparent that he could detect Han Solo's presence without being in the immediate vicinity, and yet this observation is contradicted later when he is seen continuing to move past a pillar behind which his father was hiding.

Was this a mere discrepancy? If the actor's body language is to be taken into account, Kylo Ren is shown not simply walking past the pillar, but momentarily pausing near it before turning instead toward the bridge, crossing it at a high and urgent pace. Did Ren really fail to detect his father's whereabouts in such close proximity, despite having been able to sense him from a much farther distance, or could something else have been in play?

A fan poses this question to Pablo Hidalgo, and receives an ambiguous reply that adds another layer to the mystery:

The tweet, which effectively creates more inquiries than it resolves, hints at the conflict within the character who so often speaks of holding certain convictions, but then behaves in such a way that outright disputes them. Ren managing to sense Han but not stopping to so much as investigate behind the pillar, and moving away toward the opposite direction, could imply a hesitation or reluctance to face the man who he claims to care nothing about.

"I've been waiting for this day for a long time," says Kylo Ren confidently when it is his father who reveals himself and initiates the confrontation, which then takes place at the center of a perilous bridge above an abyss.

The suggestion that Ren might have been capable of locating Han Solo but instead had chosen to avoid a direct encounter offers an insightful glimpse into the morally complex character. Suspecting that the time would eventually come when he'd need to confront his father, and make a critical decision upon that meeting, perhaps it is not a stretch to imagine that he would make a conscious effort to postpone it for a while longer.

Miss Ashley: [star wars; the force awakens]imagine_peace on November 8th, 2016 04:51 am (UTC)
The way Star Wars seems to work is that no one is pure evil. So this is all very possible. And it makes me sad as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I am no Star Wars expert, just a fan of the films. :)
so now you better stop and rebuild all your ruins: snl adam / darksidewalkerwicked_jester on November 8th, 2016 08:14 pm (UTC)
It is very sad - I still get upset by that scene when I re-watch TFA.

Until recently I had assumed Kylo really didn't know Han was there, that his dad was somehow able to conceal his presence to a degree.

I'm no SW expert either, lol.
Miss Ashley: [star wars; the force awakens]imagine_peace on November 9th, 2016 12:18 pm (UTC)
It upsets me too. Han was my fave.

Yeah, I really don't know. Maybe it'll come up in a subsequent movie?
Lumy: TFA-Kylo Ren storm4luminations on November 9th, 2016 01:45 am (UTC)
I can't shake the feeling that Kylo knew he was there, and knew he would follow him out onto that catwalk. He didn't NEED to investigate the pillar.

But maybe he WAS trying to put off the encounter... maybe he didn't actually know that Han would follow him, so he avoided a direct confrontation when he ignored him. Why would he go out on the bridge like that if that was the case though? It'd be better if he went back inside where Han would be less likely to confront him, right?
so now you better stop and rebuild all your ruins: enchanted Kylo / sauxderswicked_jester on November 9th, 2016 02:44 am (UTC)
I guess what I don't really understand is why Kylo would need to lure Han, or anyone, out onto a bridge in order to kill them. I mean, he's powerful enough to stop blaster bolts, I don't feel he'd need to trick anyone into coming out from hiding and following him. If his mind was made up about going through with it, I don't see why he wouldn't have just done so right there?

Plus, JJ states in the commentary that Ben really does consider walking away from everything. From the sound of it, Han came pretty close to succeeding in bringing his son back. I had the impression also that Kylo had been conflicted/feeling the pull to the light ever since the moment he learned about the droid being on the Millennium Falcon with his father. And it's made even more apparent in the deleted scene I discussed in the post; I wish they'd kept that in the movie! It would have established more a father-son relationship prior to the actual confrontation.

As for why Kylo was crossing the bridge, it could be as simple as him trying to get to the other side, lol. I think I read in one of the novelizations that he was looking for his father, but Han was somehow muffling his presence by keeping calm and quiet. So, in that version of the story, he knew Han was somewhere in that area but couldn't exactly locate him. My pet theory is that he wanted to meet Han alone, without an audience watching his every move, and maybe tell him to get out while he still could. But I'm a little biased, lol.
Lumy: TFA-Kylo Ren Startedluminations on November 9th, 2016 03:01 am (UTC)
Probably an unpopular opinion but... as far as character development, it doesn't bother me if Kylo was "evil enough" or whatever to kill his father in cold blood, because whatever he does can be attributed to the influence of the dark. Just like Grandpa Vader. Anakin was SO decent and selfless and purehearted... until the Jedi order fucked him up enough to let the darkness come creeping in. (but, there's where *I* am perhaps biased...lol) I just give a free pass to anyone who falls to the Dark side, I guess. "I'M NOT LIABLE HERE, THE DARK SIDE MADE ME DO IT" etc.

The badder Kylo is, the more rewarding it will be when Rey redeems him with her lovins :) Oh and Hux too, can't leave him out...
so now you better stop and rebuild all your ruinswicked_jester on November 9th, 2016 05:00 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I had the feeling that we differed there in opinion. ;)

I do see Ben as a genuine victim of the dark side. He'd been targeted by Snoke literally since Leia was pregnant with him, and was manipulated his entire life. Despite originating from the light side and having what should have been a textbook perfect life, there's this sinister dark force constantly working on him, whispering twisted and evil thoughts into his mind. Ben 'felt abandoned' according to Adam, even though he truly wasn't; he had parents who were very busy with their occupations, and I think Snoke totally took advantage of this to make him feel alone and unloved.

Then there is the entire facade of Kylo Ren, an identity that was created in an effort to make him appear as strong as Vader. Snoke actually forbids him from using his true name, and Kylo claims to have destroyed Ben for being 'weak and foolish'. The poor man absolutely hates himself, it is the very definition of self-loathing, insecurity, and an incredible lack of acceptance for who he really is. And I have very little doubt that it was Snoke who made him feel this way, and he ended up believing it because 'the Supreme Leader is wise'.

I don't think he'll get worse, tbh. I still believe that what we saw at the beginning of TFA was him at his strongest and darkest - we then see him gradually break down mentally and emotionally, and I don't think he has it in him to kill Rey. I was recently trying to come up with what possible grudge he must have against Luke, and it occurred to me that it's probably the most messed up reason you can imagine. I think I might've figured out why, and should probably write a separate entry about that.

Since I don't think Ben can be saved by familial love (Han failed after all), my thought is that he could very well be redeemed by romantic love from Rey. I can see it being a major factor. Rey has already caused him to compromise his strategies and ultimately made him fail the mission. Not to mention, he very obviously wants to be with her - he wanted to be her teacher, and that would be one hell of a commitment. It was his way of trying to convince her not to see him as a monster and to stay with him. (That's how I interpreted it, anyway.)

So I think Rey and Kylo's journeys are going to converge sooner than later, with them becoming allies or something more, and one of them will ultimately switch sides. Rey has already turned away from the temptation of the dark side in a sense when she didn't follow through with killing him, so I don't see her turning dark. However, given that Kylo feels a 'pull to the light' and Rey's name is a very clear reference to the light... well, we'll see what happens. :)
Lumy: TFA-Kylo Ren saber snowluminations on November 10th, 2016 03:48 am (UTC)
You've dug more into the stuff beyond the movies than I have, for sure. What's your Luke theory? (oh, all right, I'll wait for a new post :P)

...it never once occurred to me that Rey's name referenced light. DEEERRRRPPPP What's wrong with me? It seems so obvious now!
so now you better stop and rebuild all your ruins: pissed Kylo / sauxderswicked_jester on November 10th, 2016 03:38 pm (UTC)
I came up with it as a plot twist for my fic, and then I was like, wait, what if this idea is the actual reason? It's messed up enough to be, as far as the dark side is concerned.

Rey/ray of light! It can't be a coincidence, lol.
LiveJournal: pingback_botlivejournal on November 9th, 2016 02:33 am (UTC)
Volume One Hundred Forty-One, Issue Eight
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